tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post3387143491502098330..comments2024-03-08T16:13:12.521-05:00Comments on Journal of Ravenseyrie: Horses For Horses' Sake, Not For Their UsabilityLynne Gerardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16107340619393934366noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-3795483201326199262009-09-03T09:17:48.338-04:002009-09-03T09:17:48.338-04:00It's interesting how horses (more than other a...It's interesting how horses (more than other animals) can be a mythic creature inside one's mind - my fascination and dreamlife with horses as a young child did involve riding them. I wonder if centaurs came to be thought up in this way. They say horses are sensitive to being attacked on the back by predators. Because of this it can be threatening to have another creature climb on their backs. But, for the same reason, I wonder if it might not also be reassuring to have a creature whom they trust sit on them and stand guard over the vulnerable spot - the rider literally has "got their back." I wonder if this is why horses sometimes become more confident when they are ridden. I remember when our paint mare first came to live with us, for a few days she was a little anxious as she settled in, but when I climbed on her back on the 2nd day, she immediately became very relaxed and had a nap with me sitting there.<br /><br />- JuneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-511532643551417212009-09-01T17:06:21.595-04:002009-09-01T17:06:21.595-04:00To my mind, the cruelty and incredible stupidity o...To my mind, the cruelty and incredible stupidity of much of humankind provides a compelling argument against both Intelligent Design/Creationism and Evolution. What could be less intelligent AND less "evolved" than mankind's treatment of the earth, his fellow humans, and the creatures that share this planet?<br /><br />Fortunately, for the purpose of sharing and discussing why we have chosen to have horses in our lives it is not necessary to agree on a creation story/myth/theory. :-)<br /><br />This is a juicy topic, Lynne, and one on which many of us are reflecting deeply. <br /><br />My mother tells me that I was fascinated with horses when I was still an infant, long before I could walk. I have no conscious memory of that time in my life, but I feel pretty certain that my fascination with horses had nothing to do with a desire to ride them. Yet, when my time came to actually have horses in my life for the first time -- I was 7 years old -- it was in the form of riding lessons. And when, as a middle-aged adult after many years away from horses, I chose to change my life around so that I could have horses in my life again, so that I could have a horse of my own, it was also (ostensibly) to ride. At least, that’s what I thought then. <br /><br />One horse became three, and, after a time, I changed my life around once more so that the horses could live with us instead of at a boarding barn. At the time, I thought I was doing this for their health, so that they could have 24/7 freedom of movement and some semblance of herd life. Their health and well-being was certainly my *conscious* motivation. Now, with the benefit of hindsight, I’m not so sure that’s all that was going on. <br /><br />So much has changed for me since the horses have been back in my life and especially since they have been living at home that I’m beginning to think my concerns for their health and well-being were actually a “vehicle” to further my own soul journey. Am I doing something for their benefit or are they doing something for mine? Did their interests and my soul journey just happen to be aligned? Are they here to be my gurus, my spiritual guides? Did they consciously choose that role? I don’t have any definitive answers -- just more and more questions about these beings who share my life. <br /><br />One of the questions I continually ask myself is: what does it mean to keep horses for the horses’ sake? Certainly, in the case of Ravenseyrie, the situation is quite clear. Those horses are very fortunate. They have a great deal of varied terrain on which they are free to roam. No one seeks to possess their bodies, to force them into service as sports or leisure appliances. Their interactions with human beings are mostly voluntary. Because of the size and composition of their herds they have a varied and active social life. They have a high degree of autonomy and control over the course of their daily lives. <br /><br />The case of the horses in my life is somewhat different. They have several fenced acres of varied terrain to call their own, and a barn that is always open. They can enter and leave at will. There are only the three of them... and me... so their social life is quite limited -- but still better than that of horses who are kept separate from other horses. <br />My horses have wholesome food, clean water, freedom of movement, and each other’s company. Is that enough for a happy, fulfilled life? I don’t think so. I think there needs to be some mental stimulation, some interaction, that makes up for the lack of the active social life of a larger herd or family group. I see it as my job to provide that stimulation... and how to do that is the beginning of an entirely different discussion. :-)Kris McCormackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06036615710219973460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-5603661763588135172009-09-01T15:04:54.650-04:002009-09-01T15:04:54.650-04:00Hey Lynne,
Did you know we even have a song in th...Hey Lynne,<br /><br />Did you know we even have a song in the Netherlands which is called “Tulpen uit Amsterdam” (Tulips from Amsterdam)? In the light of your entry I realized how a simple flower can have such an impact on a country’s people, economy, infrastructure, etc. A flower that cannot be eaten, has no medical use. Every year complete truckloads of flowers (I believe all Tulips) go to the Vatican in Rome when the Pope has his Easter Speech. Every year the Pope says (in Dutch): “bedankt voor de bloemen!” (Thank you for the flowers). Amazing isn’t it? I sometimes think these Tulips have a mind of their own, and at one time they decided they wanted to become famous!<br /><br />I believe the whole idea of keeping horses for the horses sake should take root worldwide. Why is it totally accepted to keep cats, dogs, rabbits etc. as pets but not horses? Actually I believe people even have a “nickname” for horses kept as pets. Pasture pets they are called and it is always used in a negative way. In my situation when a person learns I have a horse, the first question they ask is: “And do you ride every day?” When I say I don’t ride my horse, the next question is: “Is he hurt?” When I say he does not like to be ridden, people look at me as if I have grown two horns all of a sudden. Ah well, maybe just maybe one day things will take a turn for the better. <br /><br />What a nice name you gave the new little filly. Segura, daughter of Zorita, I like that.<br /><br />Did Fada leave the family band voluntarily? I was kind of expecting that the young mares would take off one of these days. I just wonder how a band consisting of (half) brothers and sisters (and the others) will develop. Will a half brothers and sisters mate? I am curious what will happen in this situation.Annemiekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09962378758056371983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-29478776958073742992009-09-01T07:13:32.968-04:002009-09-01T07:13:32.968-04:00Yes, June, I have read Vicki Hearn's book, ADA...Yes, June, I have read Vicki Hearn's book, ADAM'S TASK.In her book Hearne gives a description of the Genesis creation story--as she interprets it--and leaves the reader the impression that she bases her training upon this story.<br /><br />I will quote it here:<br /> "Here 'nature,' of course, means something like 'paradise,' a region of clarity in which language never refers beyond ourselves and our intentions. Something very like a myth or story of expulsion from such a paradise stands behind the trainer's attempt to make sense of a life in which we must say, 'Joe, Fetch!' or at the least, 'Joe, Sit!' I hear a story that goes like this: When God first created the Earth He gave Adam and Eve 'dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon earth.' Adam gave names to the creatures, and they all responded to their names without objection, since in this dominion to command and to recognize were one action. There was no gap between the ability to command and the full acknowledgment of the personhood of the being so commanded. Nature came when called, and came the first time, too, without coaxing, nagging or tugging.<br /> "Then Adam and Eve themselves failed in obedience, and in this story to fail in obedience is to fail in authority. Most of animate creation, responding to this failure, turned pretty irrevocably from human command. The tiger, the wolf and the field mouse as well as, of course, the grasshopper refuse to come when called, to recognize our naming. One may say that before the Fall, all animals were domestic, that nature was domestic. After the Fall, wildness was possible, and most creatures chose it but a few did not. The dog, the horse, the burro, the elephant, the ox and a few others agreed to go along with humanity anyway, thus giving us a kind of second chance to repair our damaged authority, to do something about our incoherence. Training, in this story, can, through its taut catharsis, cleanse our authority, for varying stretches of time, of Nietzschean 'resentiment'. Without that catharsis, dogs very properly withhold full obedience." (pg. 47-48)<br /><br /> "So I am ending my book by appealing to the sense I have developed, as a result of reading and thinking like a dog and horse trainer for several decades now, that animals matter to us, and that the way they matter to us is probably all we can know of how and why we matter and of how they matter to one another and to the planet. The animal trainer's version of Genesis will and must continue to be the one I told earlier, the one that ends with a picture of Adam and Eve leaving Eden accompanied by the few species who chose to share their lot, to accept the human fate and all of the uneasiness and dis-eases that implies." (pg. 265)<br /><br />This then, is the story-line Hearne has embraced and based her horse/human relationship upon. But for me it is altogether based on a premise which is vastly different than the story-line I have been drawn to. She mentions "otherness" frequently throughout the book and here on page 264 we read, "Everything in the Universe is, as I have said, Other, but animals are the only non-human Others who answer us without our having to travel to India to find the right guru."<br /><br />We must keep in mind that there are many stories humans have worded into being by way of explanation of things we perceive in our existence and as means of justification for our actions. The story-line of the Creationists versus that of the Evolutionists are examples of such a human constructed phenomenon. <br /><br />For my part, I no longer direct energy to debate the validity of one story over another, or to create a sense of separation between ourselves and the animals, or between ourselves and the universe. (For me, there is no Other, no Duality, no Fall From Grace)...I simply find a sense of euphoria and peace in recognizing beauty and unity and opening up my actions to reflect these things.Lynne Gerardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16107340619393934366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-13626541628169412532009-08-30T22:10:31.614-04:002009-08-30T22:10:31.614-04:00Have you read Vicki Hearne's "Adam's ...Have you read Vicki Hearne's "Adam's Task"? It's a wonderful book and talks about the domestic animals who shared Adam's exile from paradise and, unlike the wild animals, continued to be his companions on his journey.<br />Personally, I don't believe in the evolution of species - I believe it happened just like it says in Genesis. Either way, I think at the beginning, and at the heart of things, there is a comradeship between humans and certain animals that endures and that has as its end something more than merely mutual exploitation.<br /><br />- JuneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com