tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post3923335375941927256..comments2024-03-08T16:13:12.521-05:00Comments on Journal of Ravenseyrie: PZP, Castration and Horse/Human RelationshipsLynne Gerardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16107340619393934366noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-20145486784041244172012-05-02T15:54:19.325-04:002012-05-02T15:54:19.325-04:00Janet wrote:
"However, at the same time they ...Janet wrote:<br /><i>"However, at the same time they gave the Mom and half-sister a "morning after shot" just to "make sure." I wonder what that is? It seemed to make them sweat for a day or so from what I recall. <br />Is that something that might be an option? "</i><br /><br />I remember reading about something like that. I think it is an injection of protoglandin with stimulates estrus in the mare and effectively causes her to abort (or in if near delivery time I believe it induces labor).<br /><br />I don't know that this could be used via remote dart, but might requrie delivery by hand injection from a veterinarian--not presently an option for us unless we restrain the mares...who are (with the exception of Zorita) not familiar with accomodating such veterinary "assistance". <br /><br />Also, one would have to administer this type of injection after each heat cycle where the mare was covered by the stallion--and here that would be all throughout the breeding season! Too costly and too invasive, methinks.Lynne Gerardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16107340619393934366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-77969859336857381632012-04-20T13:13:44.847-04:002012-04-20T13:13:44.847-04:00"Once the contraceptives take effect we will ..."Once the contraceptives take effect we will no longer be a breeding preserve for the Sorraias, we will nevertheless continue to be safeguarding their genetics and continuing our efforts to raise awareness about the irreplaceable value of these types of horses to the equine species and overall biosphere. Likewise, I will continue to write about the lives of these magnificent horses with whom we share our lives here on Manitoulin Island."<br />I was so glad to read you will continue to share their saga with us.<br />When my neighbor's young paint stud began courting his Mom and half-sister, my other neighbor and I called their owners. She had the vet come out and castrate him on the front lawn! I watched from a distance and he perked up right away. As far as I know no problems ensued.<br />However, at the same time they gave the Mom and half-sister a "morning after shot" just to "make sure." I wonder what that is? It seemed to make them sweat for a day or so from what I recall. <br />Is that something that might be an option? <br />Janet FergusonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-36878739998208486902012-04-08T13:58:43.756-04:002012-04-08T13:58:43.756-04:00Paulette,
I do appreciate your comments, and can ...Paulette, <br />I do appreciate your comments, and can appreciate how your experiences have shown you that early castration of the colts born at your stud proves easier on them. Nice to read that even though the young geldings did not ever experience the full range of their hormonal heritage, they nevertheless "still have great levels of male pride".<br /><br />Everything seems a bit trickier when attempting to 1) safeguard rare genetics and 2) provide a semblence of living in the wild<br /><br />This means we need to allow our boys to mature a bit, see how they develop and offer them to up for purchase to others who are in Sorraia preservation programs.<br /><br />We should have realized that the things we desire for the horses (as much autonomy as possible in a natural lifestyle) would present us with difficult decisions that other traditional breeding enterprises do not face. Its a definite educational journey for us in more ways than one.<br /><br />Thank you for your comments, Paulette--I look forward to checking out your blog!Lynne Gerardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16107340619393934366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-2939505302527904522012-04-07T02:15:02.596-04:002012-04-07T02:15:02.596-04:00Lynne, I have such admiration for you. The work yo...Lynne, I have such admiration for you. The work you have done and continue to do is wonderful. I understand that whilst in theory it is great if all our colts could remain entire and live their life as nature intended, this is not always a realistic reality. <br /><br />Our colts are all castrated. I have only ever castrated two older males (3 and 5 years) and both of these two castrations were complicated with regards to the sedatives and post swelling/infection. Over time, due to or experiences we have found ourselves castrating as young as possible. It differs for each colt, but many are done at 4-5 months of age. We rarely have medical complications and I find that psychologically they cope so much better as well. They didn't fully experience their male hormones (i.e. sexual maturity) so I hope that they have less to loose and the fact that they return to the 24hour care of their mothers seems to lessen any potential depressed emotions. <br /><br />I have gone on to work with these boys and find that they still have great levels of male pride. Whilst they may loose their desire to mate, I don't find they loose the fact that they are male.<br /><br />I hope this helps in some way.<br /><br />Warm regards<br />Paulette<br /><br />PS - have just started a blog under our stud name which you know :-)Paulettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04685729894280345124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-70488619545283883212012-03-20T15:10:22.491-04:002012-03-20T15:10:22.491-04:00More queries from June:
"You said that Inter...More queries from June:<br /><br /><i>"You said that Interessado and Silvestre are back "in good form" ... do they seem like their old selves, or their old selves modified? Do they think of themselves differently?"</i><br /><br />From my perspective, they appear as elegant, energetic and self-aware as ever. When the fillies come into heat will determine how "stud-like" they may yet be. <br /><br />I cannot say for sure what they are thinking about themselves, but I do notice they seem aware that they are now "different"--it is in the way they respond to their father when he comes to make mischief among them. And even he (Altamiro)has been a bit subdued in how he treats them. There are two groups still--the family band and the Tribe--but Altamiro tolerates the Tribe in closer proximity and allows a lot of mingling of the foals with the Tribe during different times of the day...something he hardly ever allowed when there were coming of age stallions among the Tribe. Again, this may change when the females begin to seem more enticing than they are presently.<br /><br /><br /><i>"Is castration an intrinsic difference, or does it involve just changing one aspect, without significantly altering the whole?</i><br /><br />Most people geld their male horses specifically to make them more tractable. So the answer is castration definitely alters the whole...even so far as the conformation of the gelding (typically they grow taller, with a less cresty neck).<br /><br />Our reason for castrating is that we want everyone of the horses to enjoy the open range at Ravenseyrie but we don't want unchecked breeding. Our preserve has its limitations...Lynne Gerardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16107340619393934366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-69825892434711896312012-03-20T14:56:33.174-04:002012-03-20T14:56:33.174-04:00Some queries from June:
"Are you 100% unwilli...Some queries from June:<br /><i>"Are you 100% unwilling to part with any more horses?"</i><br /><br />We do still have some of the offspring offered for sale, those who will best further the genetics. This is to complete the phase of preservation that we initially had pursued. Obviously until we can curtail the births here, we have to continue to carry through with our original concept, which is to part with the offspring to preservation-minded individuals. But if the best situations don't come together for them, they can stay here as well, though at that point they would not be able to participate in breeding.<br /><br /> <br /><br /><i>"Did you consider selectively using PZP on the mares - allowing, say, one or two to breed every couple of years?"</i><br /><br />The Science and Conservation Center at Zoo Montana where the PZP is obtained will not sell to situations such as ours unless our intentions are to cease breeding altogether. This is why we were denied the first time we applied for the contraceptive a couple of years ago.<br /><br /><i>"Is there a contraceptive for stallions other than castration?"</i><br /><br />Yes, but it operates hormonally, and from the things I read is less efficient, poses greater complications and is still far too experimental for us to consider.Lynne Gerardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16107340619393934366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-14474004748738879962012-03-20T14:39:40.833-04:002012-03-20T14:39:40.833-04:00June,
There was only one time that I was aware th...June, <br />There was only one time that I was aware that one of the many dogs and cats we have shared our lives with was momentarily unhappy about having been neutered and this was over a year after the surgery. It came as an instant "knowing" as our dog, Shelagh, out of the blue, conveyed her feelings while she was sitting on my lap. If I had to put it into words, it would read like this: <i>"I understand why I was spayed, but I would have liked to experience motherhood."</i><br /><br />I am not an animal communicator, this was just one of those clear as a bell unexplainable phenomenon.<br /><br />For the past twenty years, I have always been "up front" when I find I am making a decision for an animal in my care, meaning I tell them what is being planned for them and why. Most times they are allowed to agree or disagree and I will change accordingly--other times I tell them "this is just how it has to be". I cannot say whether they understand or not--it seems they do, but it is something I feel the need to do. It is not typically vocalized, but conveyed through internal intentions, or "heart to heart". <br /><br />As I write this, I feel it must read rather "new agey" and I don't see myself as that--rather I simply share life with all the entities around me as if there are no language boundaries. Human words create boundaries--we have come to rely upon them for human to human communication, but often, they get in the way...<br /><br />Oops...got a little off course...Lynne Gerardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16107340619393934366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-77439602581264381772012-03-19T22:43:24.627-04:002012-03-19T22:43:24.627-04:00You said that Interessado and Silvestre are back &...You said that Interessado and Silvestre are back "in good form" ... do they seem like their old selves, or their old selves modified? Do they think of themselves differently? Is castration an intrinsic difference, or is does it involve just changing one aspect, without significantly altering the whole? Speaking personally as a person of a certain age(!), I would say that the loss of fertility entails a major change in the psyche, as well as in the body. I wonder if animals experience this.Junehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13428008814751524182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-57914596438291676952012-03-19T18:19:47.594-04:002012-03-19T18:19:47.594-04:00Lynne, as always you're getting to the heart o...Lynne, as always you're getting to the heart of the matter. We've become so complacent about all the things we do to animals - castration may be undeniably necessary at times, but we don't have to pretend it's ok. It's a second best, at best. You said it right when you said it "gives one pause."<br /><br />It would be interesting to know who else out there has struggled with this, and what reaction they have observed in their horses following surgery. Anyone? Any animal communicators who know what the horses think?<br /><br />When we had our dog neutered, he was depressed for several days (at least). Was this because he (being a sensitive soul) was distressed by the experience of staying at the vet's and having anaesthesia, etc.? Or was he aware that something had been DONE to him? I have a friend who owns a male dog. This dog is always either indoors or under someone's direct supervision (unlike my dog), yet friends sometimes criticize her for not castrating him. It's become such a knee-jerk thing, hasn't it?<br /><br />You and Kevin are very courageous in the steps you have taken/are taking. I'd love to hear more about the thought processes leading up to your most recent resolutions. Are you 100% unwilling to part with any more horses? Did you consider selectively using PZP on the mares - allowing, say, one or two to breed every couple of years? <br /><br />Is there a contraceptive for stallions other than castration?<br /><br />All these problems will go away when Moshiach comes!Junehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13428008814751524182noreply@blogger.com