tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post8775244851101859754..comments2024-03-08T16:13:12.521-05:00Comments on Journal of Ravenseyrie: When the Answer is "No"Lynne Gerardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16107340619393934366noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-80037667680992658952010-03-16T15:19:39.673-04:002010-03-16T15:19:39.673-04:00Miek wrote:
"Still this is the route Rudolf p...Miek wrote:<br />"Still this is the route Rudolf prefers, I don’t know exactly why yet, but I will figure it out. So if I had accepted his “no” unconditionally we would both had to miss our wonderful walks. The trick is to figure out what the meaning of this “no” is. Sometimes it is easy, but sometimes it is a challenge!"<br /><br />Another great example of how giving some space and letting the horse chose--and honoring this type of choice--shows us they have great meaning and reasons for saying "no" which are not related to "lack of respect for leadership" or "stubborn behavior".<br /><br />Rudolf is such a good teacher! And you, Miek are a wonderful student.<br /><br />I'm glad to read this experience and am thankful you put it here in the JofR.Lynne Gerardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16107340619393934366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-44192470614859064122010-03-16T15:15:57.731-04:002010-03-16T15:15:57.731-04:00Máire wrote:
"After two tries when he ran aw...Máire wrote:<br /><br />"After two tries when he ran away, I invited him once more to come with me and promised him that I would not force him and he was free to go if he so chose.<br /><br />"So, he headed off into the distance and I sat down, feeling a bit deflated, to think about all this. Well, after a while, he came back, looked at me, and came towards me. From there, he went to the trailer and eventually followed me in, freely.<br /><br />"A real example of a horse choosing to go along with an idea, despite his own hesitation. And so strengthening to our bond."<br /><br />A terrific experience for you! I love how time and again I find the more space I give my horses to think and chose for themselves, how frequently they decide to join me in whatever idea I might have suggested we try together.<br /><br />And definitely it strengthens the bond! Much moreso than using force to gain compliance ever could.<br /><br />Thanks for sharing this story, Máire, and for learning to give a little more space for your horses to sort things out.Lynne Gerardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16107340619393934366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-78138348106099359032010-03-16T15:10:21.459-04:002010-03-16T15:10:21.459-04:00Kris wrote:
"One of the ways we demonstrate f...Kris wrote:<br />"One of the ways we demonstrate friendship is by recognizing the difference, and helping our friend find clarity.... as you did with Tobacco. This requires a certain intimacy and knowledge of one another...."<br /><br />I agree, Kris, though I think even if we may not have a "certain intimacy" or "knowledge of one another" there is a level of connection we can make use of that is not so much a "short cut" but maybe more of a "direct line access". I think this is what Hempfling taps into and it enables him to so quickly connect with even troubled horses.<br /><br />A quote from J.Allen Boone describes what I'm referring to pretty well, and maybe you're already familiar with this:<br /><br />"Whenever I became sufficiently childlike and receptive in the true meaning of those cosmic terms, I always found myself in rapport with the omnipresent and omniactive Mind of the universe. Then it would become easily possible to hear silently whatever I needed to know about the person, situation, or whatever else it was that required my reporting attention. And those silent communications always appeared to be as boundless in their scope, their value, their meaning, and their purpose as was their eternal Source. It was individual, trustable counseling that was indescribably beyond all sensory methods, as well as beyond all such negations as chance...uncertainty...insufficiency...and failure." --J.Allen Boone / Adventures in Kinship with All LifeLynne Gerardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16107340619393934366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-31905912931763012812010-03-16T14:58:43.446-04:002010-03-16T14:58:43.446-04:00June wrote:
"The one time Gus didn't stop...June wrote:<br />"The one time Gus didn't stop "arguing" after I'd prevailed in a disagreement as to where we should go next, I suddenly came upon a hunter's hide, and realized we'd strayed onto a neighbor's property. I said, "Sorry, Gus, guess you were right.""<br /><br />This is something I hope to address in a journal entry at sometime in the future. Your experience with Gus demonstrates how by always making a horse do what we ask, regardless of the "no" he may give demonstrates to the horse that we are in fact, NOT good leaders to be following.<br /><br />And I think when we shut out their intelligence in this way, they shut their intelligence off from us in the future, "Why should I bother telling her what is really going on?" says the horse, "She does't listen, she just forces me to do what she wants regardless. If I just obey, I can be unsaddled and returned to my hay and my mates all the sooner."<br /><br />Imagine how much we miss out on! Things horses are aware of and could share with us, we will never get to experience when we cause them to withdraw their intelligence from us. We need to forget what we have been told--that a horse must follow the leadership (dictatorship) of the human even--when it makes poor sense for the horse to do so!<br /><br />I'm sure the horses by and large must think of us as dumb-ass thugs.Lynne Gerardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16107340619393934366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-33649088652470398522010-03-05T03:48:14.895-05:002010-03-05T03:48:14.895-05:00When the answer is ”no” most times that is the sta...When the answer is ”no” most times that is the start for an interesting conversation. Of course there are definite NO’s, but more often the horse (or dog) is trying to tell you something. I take Rudolf out for walks whenever possible and I am sure he likes those walks. However these days when we are out of the Paddock more often than not he turns his head towards the Paddock (and his butt towards me). At first I was puzzled, why did he not want to go out? Several times I just opened the gate to the Paddock and let him go back to his friends. Until a few days ago, I asked him: “Do you really want to go inside Rudolf? What is it?” I put the lead rope on his back and let him decide where he wanted to go. It turned out he wanted to go outside, but he wanted to take the shortcut! We use the shortcut whenever the weather permits, we walk alongside the Paddock, pass a huge manure pile and from there we can enter the woods. The “normal” route is walking back to where the farm is, pass the stalls from the barn horses, go around the corner where the hay and straw is kept and then cross a small road into the woods. The “normal” route is easy going only a little longer, the shortcut is not so easy going, we have to pass a collection of farming machines that look like torture devises with sharp metal knives and all. Still this is the route Rudolf prefers, I don’t know exactly why yet, but I will figure it out. So if I had accepted his “no” unconditionally we would both had to miss our wonderful walks. The trick is to figure out what the meaning of this “no” is. Sometimes it is easy, but sometimes it is a challenge!<br /><br />MiekAnnemiekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09962378758056371983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-44569483943310817902010-03-04T09:37:20.836-05:002010-03-04T09:37:20.836-05:00Lynne, this is a great post. I was thinking of it...Lynne, this is a great post. I was thinking of it this morning as I decided to "invite" my cob, Ben into the trailer. He has a slight reluctance to load which I have always been able to get over, so have never approached it directly. Anyway, to do this I put the pony, Rosie, into the stable. Ben became very agitated and his separation anxiety became very obvious. After two tries when he ran away, I invited him once more to come with me and promised him that I would not force him and he was free to go if he so chose.<br /><br />So, he headed off into the distance and I sat down, feeling a bit deflated, to think about all this. Well, after a while, he came back, looked at me, and came towards me. From there, he went to the trailer and eventually followed me in, freely.<br /><br />A real example of a horse choosing to go along with an idea, despite his own hesitation. And so strengthening to our bond.<br /><br />MáireAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-79404803091979347112010-03-03T15:06:22.412-05:002010-03-03T15:06:22.412-05:00Lynne,
Your story about Tobacco reminded me of ti...Lynne, <br />Your story about Tobacco reminded me of times when I was conflicted or uncertain about doing something, and inclined to say "no" to an invitation. Sometimes a friend "pressured" me as you did Tobacco... asking me "why not?", listening to my reservations and helping me to resolve them, so that I could then wholeheartedly say "yes!"<br /><br />I think there's a difference between "Absolutely not!" and "I'm not sure about this" or "I'd like to, but...." <br /><br />One of the ways we demonstrate friendship is by recognizing the difference, and helping our friend find clarity.... as you did with Tobacco. This requires a certain intimacy and knowledge of one another....Kris McCormackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06036615710219973460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-15893562559345959732010-03-02T22:46:53.391-05:002010-03-02T22:46:53.391-05:00That is a good quote you chose: "Despite eve...That is a good quote you chose: "Despite everything, horses can--perhaps after a period of hesitation--decide to go along with their person's new idea, even if there are many reasons not to. It is one of the wonders I wish to tell you about in this book. Despite everything, horses will go along with us, all on their own, of their own free will, just because we do not obstinately try to force them. "<br /><br />I keep getting stuck in the either/or - either the horse does what I want, or I give in and the horse gets his way. As you say, friendship is neither, and horses are strikingly accommodating to their friends! <br /><br />Gus used to have sore feet some days, and he would refuse to come with me on those days. I could insist and make him come, but I would leave him be. Now his feet feel much better, and he comes along readily - his former refusals give me confidence that when he does accompany me, he does so willingly.<br /><br />I was discussing the Friesian (the one who didn't like the hoofjack) with his owner, who said the horse feels more confident if one insists on things. He knows the horse a lot better than I do, but the change from cooperation and connection to resistance and alienation was distinct, and I don't see how I could have re-connected by being more dictatorial.Junehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13428008814751524182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-30495131797685564912010-03-02T20:01:20.708-05:002010-03-02T20:01:20.708-05:00Yes, what you say makes a great deal of sense. Th...Yes, what you say makes a great deal of sense. The one time Gus didn't stop "arguing" after I'd prevailed in a disagreement as to where we should go next, I suddenly came upon a hunter's hide, and realized we'd strayed onto a neighbor's property. I said, "Sorry, Gus, guess you were right."<br />- JuneAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09669765529032354539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6572142164579536708.post-33565995926774277542010-03-02T19:55:01.065-05:002010-03-02T19:55:01.065-05:00Before I say anything else, I just want to say: o...Before I say anything else, I just want to say: oh my gosh, that photo of the washing on the line is the best photo ever!!!!!Junenoreply@blogger.com