Today's journal entry is a collaborative effort that requires a bit of an introduction.
Back in April of 2009, the Journal of Ravenseyrie was fortunate to be given permission to reprint The Horse Too is Allowed to Say “No” an article by Imke Spilker, author of Empowered Horses. More recently, a reader named Cyndi left several comments sharing her enthusiasm for Imke's writings along with a handful of questions, which quite naturally would be prompted by such a "radical" approach to horse/human relationships.
Within the comment section of that earlier journal entry, I provided my personal thoughts and answers for Cyndi--if you missed them, you can read by following the hyper-link for the article above.
Both this particular article and the Empowered Horses book were translated into English by my friend Kristina McCormack. Kris was kind enough to share Cyndi's queries with Imke Spilker, and together Kris and Imke generated a dialogue of their thoughts and perceptions which Cyndi's questions had sparked. It is our good fortune that these deep-thinking women have been willing to share their "answers" within today's journal entry.
As readers move through the thought-provoking text I hope you will enjoy some recent scenes from Ravenseyrie (where it is still very much wintertime).
Cyndi's Comments and Questions:
I finally finished "Empowered Horses", and plan to start re-reading it soon! I really enjoyed it, and found it to be quite inspirational. I would love to spend some time watching people like Imke, to better grasp what she does with her horses, as I am unsure about what I am doing, and I am a visual learner :o)
I do have questions. Some of the horses, like El Paso and Passaro, who were so volatile...how did they do routine things like hoof trimming with these guys before their transformations? When it takes years to get some of these horses to this point, what do you do for vet visits and such?
It was interesting to study the body language of the horses during play. I can see from the pictures that my mare is often showing signs of playful pleasure. What about head tossing? Some would say that head tossing is a sign of irritation by the horse...or can it also be play? I suppose it would depend on what other parts of the body are doing, to interpret that properly.
I have heard that if you let your horse act out or do whatever it wants, that that can reinforce rude behaviour...for instance, a horse may learn that if he does a certain behaviour, people will back off. At what point does the horse start coming around?
I'm sorry for asking so many questions, but if I don't ask, then I won't know :o)
I highly recommend this book.
Kristina McCormack:
When Lynne first drew my attention to Cyndi’s comments, she asked me if I would respond with an account of my own experiences with Khe-Ra and her hooves. Khe-Ra is a “volatile” young horse who had major issues about a number of things, including having a hoof held up. The simple everyday experience of having a hoof cleaned made her tense, fearful, and angry. Trimming was out of the question. As I wrote to Lynne, I hesitate to bring up how Khe-Ra and I dealt with this, because I do not want to imply that what we did -- and did not do -- was the "right answer" or even applicable to *any* other horse-human interaction. The answer, for me, to these kinds of questions is: there is no one right answer.
Imke Spilker:
Yes, you are absolutely right! The answers to such questions are found first and foremost with the horses themselves. But in the book of the Empowered Horses there is also quite a bit about this. Actually, I wrote the book precisely because of these kinds of questions that Cyndi poses. Even the title “Empowered Horses” (“Selbstbewusste Pferde) is one -- my personal -- answer to our “problem” of volatile horses.” A horse that has become empowered, will no longer flee. He will “stand his ground.”
Kris:
My own experience with the book of the Empowered Horses is that there is so much to be learned in its pages that it requires many readings, with close attention to the photos. Even now, every time I open it I find something new. Yet, Imke receives quite a bit of correspondence from readers who want something more. Having read the book once and been moved by it, they want to know what to *do* to put the principles of the Empowered Horses into practice. They want guidance, instructions, exercises. They want to watch Imke work with horses, so that they can learn from *her.* This desire, this “need” for answers from an expert seems perfectly natural. After all, how are we going to learn if not from someone who knows? We want to do the right thing for our horses, so we seek out what we think are the best possible experts with whom to study. The mistake we make is seeking out only human experts. We begin to learn when we realize that the real expert on this subject about which we are so passionate, the best possible teacher, is this horse standing next to us right now. We begin to really learn when we devote ourselves to “studying” with him.
Imke:
In that spirit, what good does it actually do to relay stories of Passaro’s or El Paso’s farrier visits? Vets and farriers do not try to hurt horses, they do not want to harm them, do they? In all honesty, my feeling is that stories like this are not very useful -- they tend to bring people further away from their own horses. And it is their horses that this all should be about.
Kris:
If I want to have a closer friendship with someone, do I go watch two other friends interacting with one another? And if I were silly enough to try that, what could I possibly learn about the person with whom I want to be friends?
Imke:
Yes, exactly!. What kind of a person on a date would continually text other friends for suggestions and advice about what to say next?
Kris:
I think we do this with horses because we’ve been taught lies -- for example, that horses are dangerous, stupid, need to be shown who is boss, etc. -- and that there is a “right” way to “handle” them. We want to learn that right way. And, it seems so much easier to follow a detailed “recipe” formulated by an expert, than to cultivate our own awareness and truly be in the moment -- moment after moment -- with a horse, listening to him with an open heart, responding intuitively. So, -- almost unconsciously -- we continually look for “one size fits all” instructions
There is no general rule or procedure for interacting with "volatile" horses, or any horses for that matter .... except maybe to LISTEN to them, to pay attention to what they're trying to tell us. That in itself is a huge undertaking, and worthy of all the energy and attention we can give.
Everything depends... on the horse, the person, the relationship between them,the situation, the individual moment, and countless other variables.
Imke:
Nevertheless, most humans want certainties and methods and other humans to whom they can attach themselves.
But how can I expect a horse to believe in me more than he believes in other horses, when I myself listen more to others of my own kind, when I more readily give them my trust, than my horse -- who is actually what this is all about!?
Kris:
Aren’t we humans silly? Just look at what we do, over and over again -- we want to know how our horse feels, what he is thinking, how we can help him feel better, move better, how we can be a better friend to him .... and instead of asking him, spending time with him, entering into a real dialog with him, we seek out another human -- one who likely does not know this horse at all, has never even laid eyes on him.
We study with this person, we hang on his every word, we watch him interact with other horses and we strive to do our best to do what he does. We work so hard to be good students. We follow instructions to the letter. And, in the end, what have we learned?
Mostly, we’ve learned to deny our own feelings, instinct, and intuition -- yet these qualities are precisely what we need to “hear” and understand the horses in our lives. We’ve learned to shut out our horse. By studying the human experts, learning their formulas and methods, diligently imitating them -- we make ourselves blind and deaf in our interactions with horses. We forsake the living reality of here and now and cling to the abstract -- someone else’s words and gestures.
When we have spent a lifetime learning to deny our feelings and intuition, being told to rely on them sounds just plain crazy... and frightening. We don’t trust ourselves. (No wonder, when we’ve always been taught that some expert knows better.) We don’t trust Horse. . We only trust other human beings.
And we call horses herd-bound.
Kris continues:
So, basically, Imke’s answer to these kinds of questions is: “Ask the expert, the real expert! Go to your horse!”
Which brings up one more question, namely: If we should learn primarily from interaction with our horses rather than from other human beings , why then do you (Imke) give seminars and lessons? Why do you even teach?
Imke:
Your horse is and will always be the best expert to ask, even when you
come to a clinic with me. My task there is to transmit and translate. If someone comes just to observe, “to see how it is done,” I will gently explain that "it" cannot be learned by watching me, and I will send him home to his horse.
We can begin to understand only when we have completely moved out of the observer
perspective and engage with the horse ourselves. Interaction with the horse is the path to understanding.
It is true that sometimes a person stands in front of his horse, absolutely clueless -- and the horse is just as clueless regarding the human. In that situation, I try to “open the gate" so that the two of them can come together.
Sometimes the horse-human pair has a history together, a great deal of accumulated “baggage” over which they stumble again and again. But the fundamental problem, the essential difficulty in the horse- human relationship is actually that horses are too nice to us. They will do almost anything for us. Give a human a hoof and he'll take the whole horse. We human beings do not notice that we do this, or, if we do, we have no idea what to do about it.
My teaching is for people who envision their horses empowered, who want to help them become more powerful. If you want to see me for the sake of seeing Imke Spilker, I will gladly say “hello” to you and we can chat for a while. But that will not satisfy you. It cannot. That which is essential happens between you and your horse. As long as you do not realize that, there is nothing I can do.
On the other hand, if you are someone, who, in the company of horses, always asks yourself: “How do I fit-in here, what can I do with these creatures that will not harm them?” or, even better, “how can I, a human being, make myself useful to them?” -- if those are your questions, I have some suggestions for you!
How thankful I am to Cyndi for posing her good questions and for Kris McCormack and Imke Spilker for their provocative responses. Not too unlike a Zen koan, I think that the perceptions shared in this dialogue serve very well to lead us to meaningful personal realizations where our horses and our inner sense of what is appropriate in any given situation is spontaneously revealed, moment to moment precisely because we--horse and human--are more tuned into each other than anyone or anything else.
(Please click on image to see larger format)Photos courtesy of K. McCormack
59 comments:
"Everything depends... on the horse, the person, the relationship between them,the situation, the individual moment, and countless other variables."
That is it, what I am being taught daily by Ben and Rosie at home. There can't be outside rules, just what is "in-between" the individual and the horse, in the moment. In my mind I liken it to intersubjectivity, where between humans there is attunement, joint attention, mutual influencing of each other in a particular shared moment.
I am always stunned by the closeness, harmony and understanding revealed when that moment is reached. For me, reaching that moment can take some doing, being pushed into the "now", which is not always quiet, it is often action packed, improvised and maybe even foolish for an outsider looking in.
Thank you Cyndi, Kris and Imke and Lynne of course for facilitating such a great sharing of thoughts (as well as beautiful photos).
And Imke, if you do read this, your book has been an inspiration and a turning point for me in my relationship with my ponies.
Máire
Thank you, Lynne, Cindi, Imke & Kris for this - we really do need to be reminded over and over (and over and over and over) again!
When I first read Empowered Horses I was flummoxed. I knew I had to "do" this, but of course the book doesn't exactly tell you what to "do." That's why I clung to the "put the halter on and invite the horse, and let it go if it says no" advice. Because that was the only concrete suggestion I could find! And of course that's only a starting point. After that, it's a long journey of discovery, which never ends.
I have to say I do not agree 100% with the notion that it would not be helpful to watch Imke with her horses. If you come from a dysfunctional family, where everyone is always yelling at each other at the dinner table and insulting each other, you might really have no clue how a happy family operates - and it might be very helpful for you to go and sit down with a functional family and have dinner with them and just imbibe the general atmosphere and let it rub off on you. Besides which, doesn't Imke have riding students? She talks about them in her book ... ?
Maire wrote:
"For me, reaching that moment can take some doing, being pushed into the "now", which is not always quiet, it is often action packed, improvised and maybe even foolish for an outsider looking in."
You are so right to bring this up, Maire. Being in the "now" can also be a very dynamic, energy-charged situation.
Those times which might appear foolish for an outsider looking in are easily misperceived by onlookers, hence Imke's appropriate redirection of the focus back to us and our own horses. One can only learn from observing if one first has an understanding of what one is seeing.
This is why the book, Empowered Horses is such a fine tool to facilitate understanding. More on this when I reply to June's comments.
June commented:
"I have to say I do not agree 100% with the notion that it would not be helpful to watch Imke with her horses."
I can appreciate where you are coming from June, and can see the merit of it, at least in the situation you describe. However, I'm not sure it would so readily transfer to watching Imke with her horses if one came to the ringside clueless.
As you have found out for yourself the simplicity of this approach to horse/human relationships is nevertheless multi-layered and rich in subtleties which alter moment to moment.
The incredible translation of what Imke "does" with her horses is best experienced through reading and viewing her book again and again. Here she has completely devoted herself to showing everything, even the "mistakes". Just looking at the expressions on her and the horses reveals an amazing amount of devotion and empathy and supplication and nurturing and teaching the horse as well as learning from the horse.
If we have this amazing book which we all admit gets more revealing with every subsequent reading, showing us how much we missed the first time around, how do we expect that standing ringside and watching her work with her horses and students will give us a full impression of what is going on there?
She has given us all the answers in this book, some we just haven't discovered yet, but will do so as we continue to explore new things with our own horse.
For me, this book tops any video or real-life viewing of Imke working with horses.
Do you see what I mean?
I do see what you mean, but I still think reading about and looking at pictures of happy families at dinner would not be quite the same as actually sitting down and eating with one.
By the way, your post today was very connected with a new word I just learned, and I blogged about it today.
June --
When I first read your comment about a happy family, and then your reply to Lynne, I thought: "Well, she has a good point, there. Reading about dinner with a happy family is not the same as being at the table with them. For one thing, you're not getting any food when you're looking at a book or film. :-)"
However, even spending the dinner hour, or a whole week-end with a happy family will not give a guest the experience of being in a happy family himself. The only way he can get that, is by living it with his own family, moment by moment.
Perhaps a happy family is not the best analogy for what we're talking about here in a relationship with horses. Let's think instead of a happy couple.
It is still true that reading about other happy couples pales in comparison to being one member of a happy pair. That has to be experienced. But I doubt I will improve my own relationship with my significant other by going out to dinner with a happy pair. Nor will my relationship with my SO improve, if I engage with each member of a happy pair separately.
There may indeed be qualities or characteristics that all happy couples or happy families have in common.
I can read about those, and watch couples who have cultivated those qualities. But, ultimately, developing those qualities in my own relationship is up to me and my significant other; it has to be done moment to moment, interaction after interaction. And, there is no script (or recipe, or formula, or method) to follow. There is just the two of us, here and now, acting on what we feel.
At least, that's how I'm seeing it these days.
Yes, there's nothing you say that I disagree with. But y'all doth protest rather much! Surely you don't disagree that it would be a helpful and fruitful experience for someone to experience being with you and your horses. Frankly, I think if someone were trying to understand "what this is all about," they would probably find it quite helpful to spend time with me and my horses, even though they wouldn't come away with anything they could "use".
The couple analogy doesn't let you off the hook! Children learn about good relationships within the family - and a large part of what they learn is that every relationship is different and cannot be reduced to rules or strategies.
Probably y'all are just sick of people trying to get you to "show them how"!
Oh, and do you know if Imke still has riding students?
June wrote:
Probably y'all are just sick of people trying to get you to "show them how"!"
In my case that is not true at all. There's nothing I can show anyone....
And, I find myself getting distracted if there's a camera going or if I'm being "observed." It affects my interaction with the horses -- I'm not as fully present if someone is "observing" me.
There was a time when it was different -- when I used to like to "show off". Now the thought makes me cringe....
No, there's nothing to demonstrate or show, but I do think being present with other like-minded people can have a positive effect. Obviously nothing substitutes for going home and being with your own horse. But I'm not talking about "showing how it's done" or allowing someone to "observe" - rather simply "being with" another person in the context of horses in the same way that it is pleasant to just "be with" your own horse in the pasture. Do you really think that that would be a waste of time or unhelpful?
Does Imke have riding students?
Also, Cyndi - in the interim, things like the vet and trimming can be quite problematic, not to say upsetting, and that you have to be willing to go through a period of doubt and confusion, holding fast to your conviction that it'll be ok in the end - and possibly being willing NOT to worm, NOT to trim - at least on any given day. And also you will find yourself compromising your new-found convictions, and when you do, you mustn't beat yourself up over it, nor should you think that your new path is the wrong one - you have to just pick yourself up and try again. There are no easy answers, and Kris and Imke are right - no one but your horse can show you the way.
HOWEVER - if you want to come to my house to meet my horses and hang out (even though I'm a piker compared to K & I), you're welcome!!!!!
June wrote:
"But I'm not talking about "showing how it's done" or allowing someone to "observe" - rather simply "being with" another person in the context of horses in the same way that it is pleasant to just "be with" your own horse in the pasture. Do you really think that that would be a waste of time or unhelpful?"
No, of course not. But then (and this is what I think Kris and Imke are driving at) it isn't about you and your horse, but about you and the other person, with horses nearby. And anyhow, this is not quite what Cyndi was wishing for. Here is what Cyndi wrote:
"I would love to spend some time watching people like Imke, to better grasp what she does with her horses, as I am unsure about what I am doing, and I am a visual learner :o)"
June, thanks for directing me to your blog entry. The word "egregore" is new for me too. Reading what you wrote, there tells me you understand there is a difference between "doing dressage" and whatever it is that we are doing with our horses which might demonstrate the beauty of collection.
I'm going to come back to this in my next comment.
One of the things that I have noticed being different about they way I now interact with horses (which has been inspired by Resnic, Hempfling, Spilker, Nevzorov, etc.) is that I am now much more aware of the quality of my interactions, in that I am completely responding in an authentic way rather than following a prescribed order of interaction. This time and again provides me with the most appropriate response in a given moment with my horses...whether my actions are of high energy or more subtle is in direct response to how the horse and I are feeling about things we are doing in that moment and not about whether or not I have assumed the right posture or have my feet in the right place in relation to the horse. I am doing things with the horses by feeling due to our interactive engagement and not by a prescribed method.
A friend of mine studies the Parelli system, and she is desperately trying to mimic her instructor and learn when to "bring the life" up into her body to affect a change in her horse and when to alter her posture (slouch even) to become more neutral. For her attending clinics, watching her instructor, being coached by her instructor and watching videos again and again are indeed helping her to mechanically put on a body language show for her horse and her horse has figured out (thanks to the "Seven Games" and four phases of pressure) how to give her the "right" response. And in a certain sense, it has brought her a feeling of closeness with her horse, and certainly a comfortable predictability as long as all the numerical lists of things she has been convinced are necessary are followed to the letter.
Even Hempfling is breaking down what he "does" into compartmentalized manners of body language and "do" and "don't" rules. (I actually think he is an empathetic intuitive intentful horse person like Imke is, but is trying to "teach" those qualities by his specific dos and don'ts. In the end, all he is doing is teaching mechanics...you cannot teach empathy, you feel it!)
However in that type of compartmentalized mechanical training, one can learn a lot about things through observing people well indoctrinated in the method.
But this is not how Imke goes about training, and is why it is not something one can pick up much from by watching ringside.
More on this in my next comment...
June wrote: "No, there's nothing to demonstrate or show, but I do think being present with other like-minded people can have a positive effect. ... But I'm not talking about "showing how it's done" or allowing someone to "observe" - rather simply "being with" another person in the context of horses in the same way that it is pleasant to just "be with" your own horse in the pasture. Do you really think that that would be a waste of time or unhelpful?"
If you're asking me, personally, how I feel about hanging out with people and horses together -- it is something I generally tend to avoid.
There are exceptions. I have a friend with whom my horses lived for a while... When she comes to visit we hang out together in the house, and we hang out with the horses outside, too... sometimes trimming hooves, sometimes just sitting with them, sometimes engaging in other ways. The horses know her, they have a relationship with each other as well as with me. I don't know if visits like that are particularly helpful toward anything. They're usually fun for all concerned, and fun is definitely NOT a waste of time in my opinion.
That sort of situation is very different than a relative stranger coming to "observe" me engage with my horses to see what that looks likes. It makes me feel like a specimen under a microscope... and feeling that way changes how I respond to the horses. Not in a good way.
In general, my interactions with the horses feel private to me -- just like an intimate conversation with a good friend. (Most) other people feel like an intrusion, or, at the very least, an unwelcome distraction when I'm with the horses, even if I might enjoy those same people very much under other circumstances.
Does Imke have riding students?
What I find so important regarding Imke's work, it is completely lacking in a set of rules or definition of how we should use our bodies in relationship to the horse. How heretical! Instead, we are encouraged to be dynamically interacting with feeling, emotion, imagination, empathetic intention. We are not told how to position our feet, how to hold the whip, what distance to maintain between ourselves and our horses - these are sure to render us mechanical, unauthentic and unable to respond fluidly and creates the very thing that Cyndi mentioned in her initial query, a fear of not doing things the right way.
Imke's approach is much different. She has a relationship with the horse, a fluid exchange of thoughts, feelings, movements, emotions, etc. Everything proceeds from this reality of the relationship and not from a training strategy. We respond much more authentically then, and then there is no wrong way, there is only being and learning what works to bring about understanding, which is different moment to moment. Here is one example how she proceeds with schooling a horse in collection:
How can we convey the feelings of the collected state to a horse? Is it even possible to influence a horse's inner condition from the outside? Can I do more to strengthen him in his individuality and pull myself back to give him more space? What can I do to change his consciousness, to make him feel better?
How do we make another human being aware of a very specific part of his body? If we are on intimate terms with him we do not think about it very long, "Oh, what have you got there?" We act spontaneously and lay a hand on that part of his body. Touching is the most readily available way to make him more conscious on the spot--a touch that is not demanding, but feeling, empathetic, giving the other person the gift of self-awareness. Empathetic touch--you do not need to use a complicated technique but just the "open" message, "I am here with you.". And, "Try to feel here. Have you got it? Can you clearly sense this area? How does that feel to you?" pg. 154
cont. next comment
cont.
Can you see how this is something that can be discussed in a book, explored with your own horse and creatively tailored to suit the two of you in a given moment, etc. but is not something that you are likely to learn by watching?
Ref: page 150 Imagine we are auditing a lesson Imke is having with one of her horses, like she is here with Hazel in the book. If I watch Imke place her hand on her Hazel's upper thigh while Hazel is taking backward steps, just seeing this might make me figure that the best way to teach a horse to take backward steps is to touch it on the thigh. And then if I mechanically go try this on my own horse, I might be very surprised at his reaction!
Now, Imke could stop what she is doing with Hazel and give her attention to her human observers standing ringside and explain what she has explained in the book, which then might give us a big "ah-hah" and help us put things in a better context for when we are with our own horses. But in doing this, it is disrupting whatever intimacy her and Hazel were experiencing and I for one would be reluctant to interrupt my time with my horses to explain what I am doing in the hopes that observers don't misinterpret what they are seeing. I could be much more effective writing about it and demonstrating with photos. Which is what Empowered Horses does so incredibly well.
I think this is what Imke and Kris have been expressing in regards to learning by observing.
I do think it is possible to learn things from viewing other people interact with their horses, but there is no guarantee what we are seeing is necessarily the way to go about a similar interaction with our own horse. I no longer go out to be with my horse thinking about how I have seen Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling position himself, or attempt to use my body in the way that he does, rather I go out and meld into the state of being my horse is in on that day and together we begin interacting, responding to each other in a living way and not in a prescribed way.
June inquired (several times):
"Oh, and do you know if Imke still has riding students?
I don't know if she does or not, June.
It is neither here nor there for me whether she does or doesn't teach riding.
Does it matter for you in some way?
Probably Kris knows?
If she has students, it shows that she sees some value in people learning from her in person.
I've been curious to know about that for a while and wondering how she approaches teaching others. Empowered Horses talks about students.
June answered:
"If she has students, it shows that she sees some value in people learning from her in person.
Didn't you gather this already from what she wrote in her last passages in the blog entry?
Here is what Imke wrote there:
"Your horse is and will always be the best expert to ask, even when you
come to a clinic with me. My task there is to transmit and translate. If someone comes just to observe, “to see how it is done,” I will gently explain that "it" cannot be learned by watching me, and I will send him home to his horse."
See the difference here between being there for observers to learn from or engaging with her clinic student? What she does there is for the student and the horse, not for the ringside observer. The minute she has to appeal to whatever the observers might require she has short-changed the horse and her human student.
At least that's the way it seems to me.
You know, when Francois Baucher worked with his horses he did so in the morning in private. And rumours spread that he was using all manner or peculiar methods to achieve the results he would later demonstrate to the public. But he was true to himself and the horse and could keep his focus where it belonged... but because he didn't like people observing him at work, it made people suspicious. Of course he did have close students and later even attempted to teach the military riders, but that's a different story.
As I understand it, Nevzorov discourages observers in his school, too.
There is some kind of hang up about observing, it seems.
I still like what Jean-Claude Racinet wrote in his book, Another Horsemanship, "You perhaps think that you need a teacher. Now this can be taken care of, since you have not one, but 'two' teachers at hand - your horse first, and...yourself, to boot.
With that, I'm done with the topic of learning by observing for today.
Or - I was wondering if, for the reasons you give, she no longer finds that having students is something she wants to do or thinks is valuable.
June asked whether Imke gives riding lessons...
I was going to answer based on my own knowledge and impressions, but then thought I should check with Imke rather than run the risk of misrepresenting her.
Here is the answer I was going to write: "Imke does
not give riding lessons. Imke helps people come closer to their horses, insofar as that is possible in any specific situation. And she helps people who want to help their horses become more powerful.
Sometimes there is riding involved (as a by-product), but not necessarily."
Imke commented that that answer was correct. She also wrote:
"Reitunterricht habe ich noch nie gegeben. Das mag vielleicht manchmal
so aussehn, weil einer auf dem Pferd sitzt und einer nicht, aber
manchmal sieht es auch so aus wie eine Tratschrunde, ein Wartesaal
oder ein Familienpicknick ...""
Translation: I have never given riding instruction. Perhaps it sometimes looks that way because someone is sitting on a horse and someone else is on the ground, but sometimes it also looks like a coffee klatsch/gossip circle, a waiting room, or a family picnic...."
I'm not sure why we're talking at cross purposes here. I really see value in spending time with, and imbibing the atmosphere of, someone who has a good relationship with their horses - not for "how to" but for - I don't know - karmic enhancement or something. And you are concerned that an observer might try to take notes and come away with a dispassionate set of guidelines to be implemented, which is a valid concern, given that most people are looking for a formula.
It is very liberating to be freed from "body language" and "herd dynamics" and "position" and so forth. Even "energy" can be a millstone, especially for someone like me who tends to have low energy, and I've had to learn to use something other than energy. I notice Cyndi said she wasn't much of a leader but had a "quiet strength" - which is something I can relate to except that I never really thought of myself as having "quiet strength" exactly - but that kind of sums up what I've had to summon up to deal with George. So - Cyndi - if you're listening, go for it!
Thanks, Kris - I was wondering, because Empowered Horses talks about "students" but I couldn't tell exactly what kind of students.
What about the people who are pictured riding Imke's horses? How does that work?
June inquired:
"What about the people who are pictured riding Imke's horses? How does that work?
I don't see the relevance of these questions, June, especially after the answers Kris and Imke provided on teaching riding.
What about the photos do you not understand? Maybe its time to reread the book again, and probably you won't need to pose such questions.
Kris and Imke, thank you for what you relayed regarding riding instruction.
Cyndi...have we frightened you off??
Well, the photos show individuals interacting with horses, under her eye one assumes. In some cases, the horses belong to Imke, not to the individuals playing with them. There seems to be some sort of learning process going on. It seems that that might be the sort of learning scenario Cyndi was talking about when she said, "I would love to spend some time watching people like Imke, to better grasp what she does with her horses."
Cyndi used the word "watch," but I'm sure she could equally have meant that she would like some kind of first-hand exposure or experience, of the kind which the people pictured in the book are having. There's one man there who is described as having little or no experience, and he plays with, and finally rides, one of Imke's horses. That might be the kind of exposure Cyndi would like.
Máire wrote:
"I am always stunned by the closeness, harmony and understanding revealed when that moment is reached. For me, reaching that moment can take some doing, being pushed into the "now", which is not always quiet, it is often action packed, improvised and maybe even foolish for an outsider looking in."
Yes, the "now" can certainly be quite active. I remember one time when Kochet and I were playing together in the unfenced area just adjacent to the north paddocks. It was spring and the footing was slippery (mud).... Kochet was uphill from me -- he had blown past me as we ran up together. He turned and began running toward me full tilt , downhill... I was looking at him and I had the thought "oh no, he's going to slip and slide right into me head on." I felt frightened... I couldn't get out of his path, it was happening that fast. In the instant I had the thought, I felt Kochet tell me "Stay where you are!"
This all happened in a flash, less than a second... but the message was super clear. And Kochet did cut to his left, my right, as he came to a sliding stop just a bit past me.
It doesn't sound like much, and it probably wouldn't have looked like much to an outside observer, but it was clear communication between us in the moment. We heard each other.... and it was amazing to me.
Kochet turned around and we ran up the hill together. He got to the top first. Again. :-)
This is all so interesting.
I (think) I can grasp where June is coming from. Once you decide to give a horse a choice, where do you go from there? It can feel like a passive place, lots of time to sit with a horse, but what next? I have learned, for me at any rate, that I do need to take the lead at times, to be provocative, ask questions, and allow what happens play itself out. Like: I want to catch you, what do you want? I want to ride, what do you think? I want to groom, do your hooves, etc how about you? And I have learned not to be afraid to ask those questions, because I completely respect the answers and give myself the right to respond to those answers, as I give Ben and Rosie equal right to respond.
As regards Kris's last comment: I can really relate, Kris, to your experience with Kochet. I have had such with Ben. One was when we were out on the lane behind our paddock. Ben likes to be what I call stallion-like with other horses and was doing so at the end of a long lead line, piaffing in the lane and generally showing himself off as the powerful horse that he is. When it was time for us to go back, he kept this up and I felt overwhelmed. Rather than try to make myself "big" to match him I was aware that I felt quite weak and said so to him. He immediately relaxed, dropped his head and came with me.
This post has given me lots to think about. How fascinating it all is and how good to read of others' thoughts on the other side of the ocean, as I am regarded as a bit of a "drop out" by former riding club companions.
June wrote:
"That might be the kind of exposure Cyndi would like.
Laugh! June you made my day! It took twenty some comments to get to the heart of what you really wanted to say.
I think now it would be appropriate for you and me to quiet down amd wait for Cyndi to share how she feels.
Maire wrote:
" I have learned, for me at any rate, that I do need to take the lead at times, to be provocative, ask questions, and allow what happens play itself out. Like: I want to catch you, what do you want? I want to ride, what do you think? I want to groom, do your hooves, etc how about you? And I have learned not to be afraid to ask those questions, because I completely respect the answers and give myself the right to respond to those answers, as I give Ben and Rosie equal right to respond."
Yes!
And you ask them, not someone else. And you proceed with their answers, not with the answers some third part has given you.
This is the spirit of this type of interactive.
Thank you Kris and Maire for sharing your experiences.
It's really hard, isn't it, to not try to follow the footsteps of another person? Like, Imke's book shows horses and humans playing together. I kept wondering when my horses would start doing that. Then I realized they were already playing with me - just different games from the ones in the book.
Lynne, I'd love to know what you think about clicker training?
Would that everyone had the patience to develop heartconnections with their horses, but I see this revolution taking some time to take hold in the general populace. Until then, there are millions of horses who must submit to their people...
Could clicker training be something useful to offer people as a way to "get" their horses better?
I'd love your opinion.
Almost all my life, I have been taught to dis-empower myslef. This has been a painful lesson.
When I was a child I was able to communicate without words. But through the official teaching of disempowerment I learned that I better stop doing that. As an adult, then, when I needed to communicate with my animal family I hired an animal communicator.
It seems that all I am doing as an adult is learning to unlearn the teachings of disempowerment.
So it is with this intention that I would like to share a story about my young, "volatile" horse, Raya.
Raya hates having her legs lifted. She hates it so much that she snaps at me with her teeth when I get close to her feet or legs.
I hate yelling and reprimanding -- I have made a commitment to not do that with her.
In that commitment I have chosen a very different path with her that does not include asking anyone for any advice about ground training lessons -- not because I don't think someone else could help. They probably could.
It's just that I want to work through this with Raya. I believe we can.
So here is what I do:
I get very quiet inside and I visualize opening my heart at the same time that I lower my energy. I can't explain, really, how I do this, except to say that I somehow become humble and open and very, very quiet. when I do this, I feel quite young in my heart.
All these words can hold such different meanings for different people so it isn't easy to write this down and have it make sense.
I just know that my horses always respond to me "lowering my energy" by allowing me to see and feel their own vulnerability. It's as if suddenly, we are in the same energetic field (as opposed to parallel universes in which we are physically together but not really connecting).
This is when I am able to approach Raya without inflicting worry and tension on her.
That is how I "taught" her to be okay with trimming -- or how she "taught" me to approach her. I now trim without a lead line or halter.
That said, there are days when I approach her for trimming and she makes it very clear that there will be no trimming at that time! I don't take this as a setback anymore. In hindsight, I can see that on such days, Raya and I were not in the same energetic field when I approached her.
I honestly don't believe anyone could have shown me how to do this with Raya. However reading on your blog that it is okay to allow a horse to say "no" has helped me immensely because it has given me confidence that there are others who are listening to their horses.
This, in turn, has given me a kind of support system.
But back to me and Raya. The only way for me to "do" what I "do" with her is to be with her -- in our own little energetic field.
If you were here with her I am sure it would be beautiful but it would be different because your energy is different than my energy.
Perhaps being with a horse is a little bit like eating.Someone can show you how to put the piece of candy to your mouth. But no one can chew and digest the treat for you. Or taste it.
Tanya raises an interesting question - is there any "advice" one could give to people who are interested in developing a better relationship with their horse, but who haven't yet given it a whole lot of thought, or who don't yet envision any very radical changes in their modus vivendi?
I think clicker training could be helpful as a step in the right direction, as it's all about positive reinforcement. However, personally if I had to pick just one thing to offer a questing individual - I would say that they should throw away the old taboo that the horse is not allowed to say no, and they should start allowing the horse to say no as often as possible (as in the reference article on this site by Imke Spilker). It's such a taboo in the horse world that more than anything else, getting rid of that prohibition would be liberating, and it would immediately start eliciting different behavior from the horse.
Tanya wrote:
"Would that everyone had the patience to develop heartconnections with their horses, but I see this revolution taking some time to take hold in the general populace. Until then, there are millions of horses who must submit to their people...
Could clicker training be something useful to offer people as a way to "get" their horses better?"
Tanya, I'm afraid that my opinion on clicker training would not be a very educated one. Though I know people who have put clicker training to good use, I have had no desire to try it myself.
I suppose from my perspective, if one has the patience and time to shape a horse behaviour with clicker training, one could apply themselves to a heart connection with greater meaningfulness resulting for the horse/human partnership.
A heart connection (entrainment) is actually the most natural thing in the world to achieve and it begins with the pureness of one's empathy and devoted intention.
June commented:
"However, personally if I had to pick just one thing to offer a questing individual - I would say that they should throw away the old taboo that the horse is not allowed to say no, and they should start allowing the horse to say no as often as possible (as in the reference article on this site by Imke Spilker). It's such a taboo in the horse world that more than anything else, getting rid of that prohibition would be liberating, and it would immediately start eliciting different behavior from the horse."
Nicely put, June. I agree, as long as the human is coming from the right place (in the horse's best interest and facilitating togetherness and reciprocal understanding) and doesn't relinquish his or her own right to say "no". It's an egalitarian relationship, perpetually flowing, no one-sidedness and always with the spirit of "we're facing the world together", in my opinion.
Lori wrote:
"It's just that I want to work through this with Raya."
Lori, I think your experience with Raya is very illuminating and I am so happy you felt comfortable sharing it.
Your desire to find your way around Raya's issues with having her hooves handled by exploring things together - just you and her, rather than attempting to apply advice from well a meaning and perhaps even more knowledgeable third party is something I hope other reader's are inspired to try. It's the only way to find the gnosis that resides within the dynamics of your own relationship, which is where the ultimate realty for the two of you lies.
Lori continued:
"That said, there are days when I approach her for trimming and she makes it very clear that there will be no trimming at that time! I don't take this as a setback anymore. In hindsight, I can see that on such days, Raya and I were not in the same energetic field when I approached her."
This insight, as well, is very worth repeating!
Thank you Lori for sharing your story with Raya here.
Lynne, there is synchronicity at work here! I have just written a post and linked to this post of yours. The subject of my post was Ben and hoof cleaning and treating.
i can relate to all that Lori says in her comment.
Lori said: "However reading on your blog that it is okay to allow a horse to say "no" has helped me immensely because it has given me confidence that there are others who are listening to their horses.
This, in turn, has given me a kind of support system. "
I just completed this weekend a class on how to take care of people suffering from Alzheimer disease. There is 2 facts about these patients that strike me as very similar to how we relate to horses is the concept of being in the "now" and that our emotions are the relationship dynamic.
Having said that, for June questioning about how to go about clinics that would focus explaining the dynamic going on when interacting with the horse that way, I think the frame of mind for attendees should be more centered on the emotions involved and the impact of those on your relationship with the horse.
Through Michael's recent teaching the "Nevzorov" to local student here, I see more and more Michael's work as "coaching" . Like Lori said , I think when people start in that direction with their horse they need to be reasured, and encourage to listen to their emotions in order to build the quality of the relationship and not to fall back in the "old" habits of using a particular "method" as habits acquired for many years are hard to change. It is about reaching a state where the horse trust you and you trust your horse at liberty.
And Kris, I am wondering why Mark at HorseConscious did not include Imke as a "teacher" ?
Very interesting blog Lynne as usual!
I really like Lori's analogy of tasting.
To share an example of how much more direct a "heart connection" is than traditional training modalities or more recent methods of teaching horses, such as the clicker training brought up by Tanya, I would like to bring reader's attention to the entry Maire made recently in her own blog.
Here is an excerpt from Maire's blog:
"Now as I have mentioned, Ben can get quite impatient holding up his foot for anything other than a quick going over with a hoof pick. I have needed to treat his hooves for thrush and this week I was at work on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday and therefore went out to Ben in the dark after the usual bustle of homework, dinner, bedtime in the house. I was tired with a tired mind as well as body and a sore shoulder. Ben’s jerking of his leg was not appreciated by me.
I wondered if I should try a clicker training approach to help us both.
On Thursday morning I was not at work. I went out to the paddock having relished the silence of the house which had already restored my mind. I went up to the shed and sat outside. Rosie over by the trees looked up. I felt I could somehow signal a welcome to her silently as I sat and she seemed to feel this and walked over to greet me. Ben, up the back, approached as he heard Rosie moving and in his turn greeted me also. Then he went back up to his favourite resting spot.
I looked up at him, aware that somehow my mind and my heart felt open, expansive and, on a whim, I picked up the hoof implements and went up to Ben. There in his resting place, at liberty, he lifted up each foot in turn and held it patiently whilst it was cleaned and treated.
I could have tried a clicker approach, and I am sure it could encourage Ben to cooperate with the hoof cleaning process. But what happened was both simpler and more profound. There was no hierarchy here; no “you shall” of a dominant stance or training of a positive reinforcement approach. There was harmony between horse and human, my inner state influencing Ben and creating the togetherness of the moment.
I like to think that Ben is waiting for me to have this inner state to which he can respond."
As in the experiences relayed by Lori and Kris and the many examples Imke provides in her Empowered Horses book, the story shared in Maire's blog is a clear example of coming into a state of being that allows for a full connection with all that surrounds you, making it possible for the direct connection between two beings where togetherness and understanding is a natural feature of that type of unity.
It isn't anything "woo woo", nor is it something that one must learn to do...it is more of a letting happen by not doing.
To read the full story by Maire, pleace click the link to her Ponies At Home blog.
Thank you Maire for allowing me to reprint part of your post here.
Monica wrote:'
"Having said that, for June questioning about how to go about clinics that would focus explaining the dynamic going on when interacting with the horse that way, I think the frame of mind for attendees should be more centered on the emotions involved and the impact of those on your relationship with the horse."
I agree, Monica. And how difficult it is for us to allow ourselves to be emotionally involved, when this is considered an absolutle "no no" in traditional training. What makes it useful, rather than harmful, is not simple getting swept away by the emotions of the moment, but to be aware of them with a certain detatchment.
And horses learn this too!
Hello, Lynne, it is very good to be caught up on your blog again. This particular post is so near and dear to my heart. Reading it, and rereading Imke's article, reminds me that it is just over a year since I began this "being-with" journey with my companions, mares Susie and Sophia, and donkey Walter. Our being-together doesn't look very active, we don't engage in the more physical play Imke describes in her book, but we have a wonderful heart connection and the little offerings of communication and attention are such huge gifts from the horses. These are older mares with a lot of previous experience with humans, and it is such a joy to me to see them both feel safe to ask for things, to express themselves, and to be able to say No.
Someone watching from the "outside" would see none of they. They would see a middle-aged woman who goes out once a day to clean her barn and feed her horses, and who occasionally walks out into the pasture or brings a horse into the yard to graze. They would think they were seeing a woman who doesn't "DO" anything with her horses. Isn't that interesting?
Our farrier, a wonderfully intuitive woman--Julie--whom my horses adore, comments every visit that we are her favourite barn to visit because the energy is so powerful and so positive. That is the best compliment I could ask for.
I've given up trying to explain to others what I "do" with my horses, or even why I "have" horses. I simply say, "They are mostly retired," and let it go at that. But I always wonder about the questions....why no asks what I "do" with my dogs or what I "do" with my friends. It is not about doing together, it is about being together, being-with, at the level of the heart. Very simple, very quiet.
Thank you, Lynne, for all your inspiration, and of course, Imke and Kris, who planted the seed that made being-with empowered horses a reality for us.
Hilary
Hilary wrote:
"Our being-together doesn't look very active, we don't engage in the more physical play Imke describes in her book, but we have a wonderful heart connection and the little offerings of communication and attention are such huge gifts from the horses."
For most of us, I think the initial connections are made when the horses are mellow and the atmosphere is gently enveloping us --when energy levels are at a low resonance, and this mainly because we humans typically are living in mind/body states which are borderline chaotic and certainly preoccupied with things we believe are relevant (but in reality are irrelevant) which have a separating, rather than unifying effect on all those around us.
This may be why it is the quiet moments we find ourselves unified, and it is the "not doing" which allows it to happen.
If we don't settle for this as being just a little slice of bliss that we hope we can stumble into again, we soon learn that we can bring ourselves into resonance through our attention. And when we are in the habit of creating our moments and not just waiting for them to fall into our laps, that is when we find we are able to connect during high energy states too.
I like the feeling of both...being in that high energetic state that horses enjoy expressing through dynamic movement as well as the quiet, meditative times.
It's nice to read comments from you again Hilary and to know you are living by the heart with your horses and donkey. Thank you for reading and sharing your thoughts!
Well, I'm finally here!!! I was checking your site, Lynne, on and off to see if Imke and Kris had replied, but then got busy and haven't had a chance to get back in here until now.
Wow...when I first started reading Imke and Kris's replies, I felt a bit like I was being scolded. That shows you just how insecure I feel sometimes! Ha ha ha! But then I reminded myself that this wasn't "all about me", so I was able to read it more openly.
Everything said really does make sense to me, and I have thoroughly enjoyed reading all the comments!! What a wonderful group of people in here!
Someone had mentioned in their comment about being alienated (not exact words, but something similar) from their horse friends. I am in the same boat. I have known horse people from different barns we've been to, and even though nothing negative has ever happened between them and me, we aren't in touch with each other. I'm sure a big part of that is simply because I don't see things the way they do when it comes to training and listening to your horse. They are more of the mindset that horses are here for our enjoyment and our entertainment and we do what we please with them, whether they like it or not. I am pretty certain that many "horsey" people I've known would consider me very incapable of training my horse and "accomplishing" anything with her. As I recently read (maybe in Imke's book?), does a horse care if it wins a blue ribbon? No, it's more for the rider's satisfaction.
More later,
Cyndi
Second part to my comment...
In regards to observing people like Imke with her horses; for me, it would simply be inspirational, and it would give me permission to go with the flow of the horse and be caught up in the moment, rather than be caught up with doing things a certain way. I would like to see the emotions that are shown. So many training methods tell you to always be "on" when you're with your horse, to be the leader and never let your horse see you as weak. As much as I enjoy being with my mare, there are days when I am tired, down, or in pain (some health-related issues), and I just want to be with her. Again, this is the "permission" thing that I 'need' affirmation for, to be who I am at each moment with my horse.
The comments in here are so encouraging, because everyone seems to be so free. It's the freedom I'm after! Free to be me!! When I talk about getting "permission" to express myself, it means that I want to know that I don't have to conform to methods that most people around here follow - like staying out of certain areas of a horse's body (no-go zone), or how or where to stand, etc. - it's confusing!! I spend more time wondering if I'm doing 'this' or 'that' right than I am focusing on my horse. Your comments are very encouraging, to let me know that I'm not the odd-ball that my former friends would consider me to be. I'm not alone in wanting to get to know my horse from the inside out, rather than 'showing her who's boss'. You have all made me feel hopeful.
When I read books like Imke's and Klaus's, and when I watch videos of Klaus, I don't necessarily want to be like them, but I am just so refreshed by watching them with their horses. It helps me to think positive, and to know that there are others out there who are looking for a better way to be with their horses.
My mare, Fanny, and I are two different species. I do not desire to dominate her, but to seek to understand her better, and to be in harmony with her. I have a Dutch friend who has a little quote hanging on her wall. It's a picture of a little girl carrying a duck, and there are other animals with her, and the quote talks about being different and not speaking the same language, yet we understand each other. That's something to think about.
Sorry for the novel! I am a bit overwhelmed with all the thoughts going through my head after reading all of this. When I have more time I'll try to go back and reply to comments individually.
With warmest thoughts,
Cyndi
Hilary,
Kris has asked me to inquire if you'd grant permission for her to quote part of your comments on this topic in an article she is writing for her own blog.
Kris says, " It's the bit about what someone else would see watching her that I'm interested in... Very often what we "do" looks as though nothing much is happening, but beneath the surface all sorts of 2-way communication is taking place.."
What say ye?
Cyndi,
It's great you finally got opportunity to check in again and get caught up on all the dialogue your queries generated.
I'll comment further a little later, right now have to get some work done.
Lynne wrote: "It isn't anything "woo woo", nor is it something that one must learn to do...it is more of a letting happen by not doing. wrote: "
No not "woo-woo" at all. Rather, it is more "wu wei."
:-)
Cyndi wrote:
"As much as I enjoy being with my mare, there are days when I am tired, down, or in pain (some health-related issues), and I just want to be with her. Again, this is the "permission" thing that I 'need' affirmation for, to be who I am at each moment with my horse."
Well, for what it's worth, you absolutely, without question have my permission to be exactly you who are in every single moment, especially with Fanny. In fact, I insist. :-)
The thing is -- horses can read us perfectly. If we are incongruent -- that is, NOT behaving in accord with our inner feelings, horses know. If there is a discrepancy between the inner Kris and the outer Kris, my horse will know exactly what is going on inside me, no matter how hard I pretend otherwise. And the fact that my outer actions do not conform with what I'm feeling, will be a cause for my horse to mistrust me. What is it I am trying to hide? And why?
So, anyone who "teaches" you to never show a horse your fear, or to never let him know that you are unsure, (just for two common examples) is setting you up for certain failure if what you are looking to do is develop a relationship of mutual trust and understanding with Fanny.
Saying that horses can read us is neither magic nor mysticism. Feelings are "things" -- they show themselves not only in visible ways like posture, expression, way of moving, but also in numerous invisible ways, like changes in our hormones, in neural pathways, in our electromagnetic frequency...
The fact that something is invisible does not make it less real. Horses have a highly evolved receptive ability for these invisible changes, these "vibes."
Lynne, thanks again for opening up the opportunity for discussions like this!
Kris, thanks for giving me permission to be me! :o)
I had a hard time trying to convey what I was feeling - to put it into words. "Permission" seemed like the best word to use. When you are being told by most well-known horse trainers to behave in a certain way, or do things a certain way, but you don't agree with it, you just want to hear someone else (who is successful - if that's the right word - in doing it the way you agree with), that it's okay to not listen to those other trainers, no matter how popular and well-known they are, and to do what your gut tells you to do. Maybe "support" would have been a better word - so we don't feel that we're alone in our quest to find harmony with our horses - we have others in here to cheer each other on.
I liked your comment about horses knowing what we're like inside, no matter what kind of front we put on. I've tried a few of those other methods and felt like a complete fake, and Fanny knew it! I have found that she trusts me to a certain point, but will not trust me all the way, so I am now being totally honest with her. No more pretending, because after almost three years of it, I've had enough! I'm sure she has too.
I'm looking forward to warmer days ahead and finding out what it is Fanny enjoys. Maybe she isn't crazy about me starting up a game like Imke does with her horses, that is for us to explore. I will certainly listen to and respect her wishes.
I, too, understand why observing someone with their horses is beneficial. If you spend time with "bad" people, they tend to influence you and you start making bad decisions. If you spend time with "good" people, you start to live like them and take on their positive attributes. Alas, in those cases it takes time before you start to live the same way that your peer group lives, so I can understand why spending just a weekend with Imke (or someone else we admire) wouldn't be adequate. And it's not like we want to be Imke clones, but by observing others we may be inspired to try something new with our horses that we wouldn't have thought of on our own, or maybe we'd gain more patience, or gain more of a sense of humor, or be more relaxed and easy going, etc..
I am learning to treat Fanny as a unique individual, but sometimes I am at a loss as to what to try next. That must be part of the learning process, and hopefully the more time I spend with her, the easier ideas will come to me. Maybe those times of "all I do is stand here, but I want to do more" are meant to be times of waiting and listening. Perhaps what we were supposed to learn hasn't been learned yet.
When I had my two babies (15 and 17 years ago already!!), the one thing I kept hearing was, "They don't come with an instruction manual, you have to learn as you go.", and although a person gets all sorts of advice on how to raise them, how I do it depends on what I feel is the right way to raise them. Why don't people share that same attitude when it comes to horse training? There seems to be this unwritten rule book for how a horse is "supposed" to behave, etc., and when your way of training falls out of line, others are quick to criticize.
Welcome to the club, Cyndi! You will definitely feel at a loss as to what to do next - and it's definitely not something to worry about! You will find yourself getting bolder as time goes by, and as your relationship progresses, it'll be easier to find a way of suggesting things without forcing them. Fanny will suggest things too.
What you say about child rearing - in the same way, I think people are much less judgmental about the way other people raise their dogs, and people are much more indulgent toward their dogs (and children). The reason is probably that horses are Big and Scary. Some have compared being with your horse to being on a date, but I prefer to think of it as similar to being with a child - much less pressure! So if you don't yell at, or hit, your children - don't yell at or hit your horse. You can raise a child to have nice manners and be considerate without ever raising your voice or being tyrannical. And you can just hang out and do goofy things like look at random objects and play in the water and have snacks. And just like with kids, horses can do things for A VERY LONG TIME which will bore you. E.g. in October, George wanted me to spend an hour standing next to him while we did absolutely nothing at all. (Actually I wasn't bored, but I do get bored hand-grazing, another favorite pastime.) But by the same token, we seem to enjoy doing things ad nauseam which horses get tired of in a few moments. So I have developed the 90-second training session.
Cyndi wrote:
"it's not like we want to be Imke clones, but by observing others we may be inspired to try something new with our horses that we wouldn't have thought of on our own, or maybe we'd gain more patience, or gain more of a sense of humor, or be more relaxed and easy going, etc.."
In this context, absolutely one does well to be an observer as long as we remember the uniqueness of each situation and refrain from applying what has been observed to our own relationships with horses in a way that is mere mimicry. One simply cannot dress like someone we admire and expect that the deeper meaning of the heart comes through.
You recognize this now, Cyndi, as can be known from this earlier comment you made: "No more pretending, because after almost three years of it, I've had enough!"
While working on something at the studio, I went looking in a book of mine and found there a couple of quotes that, for me, address the most effective way for us to be with our horses and create something beautiful with our relationship. These quotes are talking about creating art, but with a little imagination, one can ascribe what is written to horses.
See if you don't agree...
"Art is simply a result of expression during right feeling. It's a result of a grip on the fundamentals of nature, the spirit of life, the constructive force, the secret of growth, a real understanding of the relative importance of things, order, balance. Any material will do. After all, the object is not to *make art*, but to be in the wonderful state which makes art inevitable."
"I think the real artists are too busy with just being and growing and acting (on canvas or however) like themselves to worry about the end. The end will be what it will be. The object is intense living, fulfillment; the great happiness in creation."
These quotes are from American artist, Robert Henri (1865-1929) and appear in his inspirational book, THE ART SPIRIT, Westview Press, pub.
For me, it helps to think of life as a poem, a painting, a dance, a song...then I put myself into whatever I do with earnest feelings.
Give it a try, you are likely to find beautiful and explorative things happening between you and your horse, as you and all else in your world.
As it happens, Imke has quite a bit to say about art in relation to horses.
Those of you who have the EMPOWERED HORSES book, I encourage you to look for the various portions of the manuscript that bring the concept of art into the horse/human relationship. Hint: they aren't all listed in the index
When you find one that really speaks to you, please quote it here, because not everyone who is reading has the book.
Hi everyone, I am Paulette from Australia. I am blessed to have just spent 2 weeks with Imke here at our place. I really do understand that desire to watch and learn - it's human, it's how most of us learn. The time with Imke was so amazing. A great deal of this time was not spent "working" with horses - it was spent rethinking how we spend time with horses. It was about discussing what matters to the horse. We had 2 intimate seminars and some of these people really wanted to see demonstrations - but how can what matters to one of my horses be translated to a completely different horse, it just doesn't work like that. Our horses gave us the direction of how we should try to help them, so how can this be relevant to the next horse? I learnt so much and yes for sure, having Imke so close helping progress my understanding in a big way but I can say that most of what Imke taught us is in her wonderful book translated by Kris - Empowered Horses. It is available to us all if we read and re-read. One of my biggest learnings was "open space". To create open space for the horses to have a sense of freedom to moves takes away the feeling of be stopped or blocked both physically and mentally. To then take this concept of open space into our own minds has been the other big turning point for me. To go out to my horses and truely be free in the mind, to really focus on what my horse feels and may be trying to tell me is the key. To then ask the horse questions from your observations..... and it goes from there. Keep thinking for after the time with horses and allow the time with them to happen - open mind, open space. Today with one of our horse gorgeious owners we had a session with a horse where this empowered work is new. We were so open to the possibilities, we didn't have any expectations except to try to create a pleasant experience for this mare. The result was more than we could ever have imagined - how wonderful - our open minds allowed this to transpire. So nice to meet you all and what a wonderful journey we are all on. Warm regards Paulette
PS - when I am feeling a little stuck or maybe thinking a little too much I do like to review this page from Imkes website:
http://www.kommunikativepferde.de/theteacher-en-621.html
Paulette wrote: "Our horses gave us the direction of how we should try to help them, so how can this be relevant to the next horse? I learnt so much and yes for sure, having Imke so close helping progress my understanding in a big way but I can say that most of what Imke taught us is in her wonderful book translated by Kris - Empowered Horses. It is available to us all if we read and re-read."
Hello Paulette! Thank you for taking the time to provide readers here a bit of a synopsis of Imke's journey to the land down under. I had been wondering how things had gone for her, for the horses and their human friends.
I do think that your impressions are very much how many of us feel--that being how the EMPOWERED HORSES book is so rich with feeling and examples of taking cues from the horses themselves on how to proceed that it serves as an excellent springboard for empowering humans to tune in to themselves and their horses wherein the way forward ultimately presents itself.
How excellent of you to provide the link to Imke's website, where this page provides the very questions that do help us navigate our interactions with our horses in a much more meaningful and healthful way.
Direct perception between horse and human seems almost too simple, doesn't it? But once one gets adjusted to trusting these types of interactions, the "seeker" mentality which always feels in need of a physical human teacher guiding them rather vanishes, wouldn't you agree?
Thank you very much for your comments, Paulette!
Lynne wrote: Direct perception between horse and human seems almost too simple, doesn't it? But once one gets adjusted to trusting these types of interactions, the "seeker" mentality which always feels in need of a physical human teacher guiding them rather vanishes, wouldn't you agree?"
I most certainly do agree. One point I will note is that when you are just starting out, on many many occasions you will think "did the horse mean that" or "is this really happening, or am I imagining it". I find this happens over and over. We don't trust our instinct, how can the horse really understand what is happening! During our 2 weeks, we would often be discussing a topic in the group and then one of the horses would enter the group and provide us a live example! This happened more times than I can count! I began to realise just how amazing our relationship can be if we are really genuine with them in every way. If we are really genuine in wanting everything for the horse - and only the horse.
Cheers
Paulette
Paulette wrote:
"I began to realise just how amazing our relationship can be if we are really genuine with them in every way. If we are really genuine in wanting everything for the horse - and only the horse."
I agree with this to a degree, Paulette, but confess that I sometimes approach the horses genuinely wanting something for ME.
For example, I might ask them to follow me to a different spot because I know I can get a better photo from this angle. In this instance, my horse doesn't want or need to have her photo taken, and may be perfectly comfortable not coming over to where I am standing with my invitation. She may or may not accept my invitation, and she knows that whatever she choses, I will not become angry or force her into coming to me. What is genuine, in this instance--even though I am asking the horse to do something for me that has no conceivable benefit to her--is that while I do want something for "me" it is never at the expense of our relationship.
Isn't this what friendships are about? We ask things of each other, with an underlying love for each other, in a nurturing, supportive way in a mutual exchange.
I suppose I am "splitting hairs" to bring this up, but I think part of being genuine is to recognize that sometimes we do want things for ourselves and this makes us no less "for" the horse, if that makes any sense.
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